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新加坡金沙娱乐网址:美国网民吐槽医保体系

时间:2017/12/23 21:22:21  作者:  来源:  浏览:0  评论:0
内容摘要:Why Is An Appendectomy In The US 10 Times More Expensive Than An Appendectomy In Mexico?.为何美国的阑尾切除术比墨西哥的贵10倍?.【链接】http://www.zerohedge.com/n...


Why Is An Appendectomy In The US 10 Times More Expensive Than An Appendectomy In Mexico?.为何美国的阑尾切除术比墨西哥的贵10倍?.新加坡金沙娱乐网址:美国网民吐槽医保体系

【链接】http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-06/why-appendectomy-us-10-times-more-expensive-appendectomy-mexico

【原文】

This is what can happen when you go to a socialized healthcare system.

这就是社会医疗保险制度的结果。

A lot of people out there believe that the United States has a free market healthcare system, but that is actually not true.  The percentage of the population that receives government-subsidized healthcare is rapidly approaching 50 percent, and the healthcare industry may be the most heavily regulated sector of the entire U.S. economy.

有很多人相信美国有一个“自由市场化”的医保体系,然而事实并非如此。接受政府补贴医保的人口比例正迅速接近50%,而医疗行业可能是整个美国经济中受监管最严的部门。

Every year the rules, red tape and regulations seem to get even worse, and every year health insurance premiums rise much faster than the overall rate of inflation.  If we don’t start applying free market principles and start getting healthcare costs under control, our entire healthcare system could very easily implode.

每年,那些条例、繁文缛节和规章制度似乎都愈加糟糕,而且医疗保险费每年的上涨速度远高于通货膨胀率。如果我们不开始运用自由市场原则、控制医疗成本,我们整个医保体系很容易崩溃。

I would like to share with you an excerpt from an article by former DEA agent David Hathaway.  According to Hathaway, the average cost for an appendectomy in the United States is $33,000…

我想和大家分享一下前缉毒局特工David Hathaway的一篇文章的摘录。根据Hathaway的说法,阑尾切除术在美国的平均费用是33000美元(约合22万人民币)……

My son had an attack of appendicitis late Saturday night. I knew that the Obamacare inflated prices for surgery in the U.S. would be ridiculous and that the service would likely be impersonal, involve long waits, and be nerve-wracking. I have friends in the medical field so I inquired just for grins.

我儿子星期六晚上突发阑尾炎。我清楚被奥巴马医改抬高了的美国外科手术价格会是很荒谬的,而且整个服务过程很可能没有人情味儿、需要长时间的等待、让人神经紧张。我有朋友在医疗行业,所以心情轻松地咨询了一下。

The price for the latest routine appendectomy in my area was, my jaw dropped, $43,000. I read on-line that the average cost for an appendectomy in the U.S. is $33,000. I am not near some of the great direct-pay medical facilities in the U.S. like the Surgery Center of Oklahoma, but I am near Mexico. I chose that option since I have often utilized foreign medical and dental facilities in the past and find the service and prices to be outstanding.
You can buy a very nice brand new car for $33,000.

结果我下巴惊掉了,离我们最近的阑尾切除术的价格是43000美元。我在网上查到,美国阑尾切除术的平均费用是3.3万美元。而且我附近的医院也不是像俄克拉荷马州外科中心那样的好医院,不过我在墨西哥附近。所以我选择去墨西哥治疗,因为我经常去国外看病、看牙,发现他们的服务和价格都很棒。
要知道,33000美元你可以买一辆非常好的新车了。


How in the world did we get to the point where costs have escalated so far out of control?  Should performing an appendectomy really be this expensive?

医疗价格究竟是怎么走到失控这一步的?阑尾切除术真的应该这么贵吗?

I can imagine that some of my readers may be thinking that the quality of care down in Mexico is much lower, but this is actually not the case at all.  Here is more from David Hathaway…

我可以想象,我的一些读者可能在想,墨西哥的医护质量要低得多,然而事实并非如此。我们来听听David Hathaway的说法……

My son was checked into a private room with private bath and satellite TV awaiting his surgery. The surgical staff was prepped and ready to start within an hour-and-a half of our arrival. The appendix was ruptured, so extra precautions were taken to clean and flush the abdominal cavity. Since the appendix was ruptured, the chief surgeon said that my son should stay two days to receive intravenous antibiotics to prevent the development of peritonitis.
The surgery was a success, and David’s son did stay in the hospital for two full days in order to receive the antibiotics that the doctor suggested.

我儿子被安排进了一个有私人浴室和卫星电视的私人房间等待他的手术。手术人员已经准备好了,准备在我们到达后一个半小时内开始手术。阑尾破裂了,所以采取了额外的预防措施清洁和冲洗了腹腔。由于阑尾破裂,首席外科医生说我儿子应该接受两天的抗生素静脉注射,以防腹膜炎发生。
手术成功了,David儿子也确实住了两天院,以遵医嘱接受抗生素治疗。

But despite the extra time, the bill for the appendectomy was still less than 10 percent of what it would have been if the appendectomy had been performed in the United States…

尽管花了额外时间,但整个阑尾切除术的花费仍不到在美国做的10%……

The hospital stay was for 48 hours in a private room where my wife was allowed to spend the nights with my son sleeping on a couch in his room. This cost would have been significantly less if we hadn’t incurred emergency fees and if the appendectomy had not involved complications which required a longer stay and more medication.

我们在私人病房住了48小时,我妻子被允许晚睡在房间沙发上陪我儿子。如果没有急诊费以及没有突发并发症以至于要进一步住院和治疗的话,花费还会大大降低。

Despite all that, I though the total price of $2,830 dollars was very reasonable.
So why can’t we have hospitals like that on our side of the border?

尽管如此,2830美元的总花费还是非常合理的。
那么问题来了,为什么我们边境这边没有这样的医院呢?

This is yet another example that shows that Obamacare has got to go and that we need to get government out of the healthcare business.

这只是另一个例子,证明奥巴马医改需要被取消了——我们需要让政府退出医保行业。

We once had the greatest healthcare system in the history of the world, and we can do it again if we will just return to free market principles.  Elections really matter, and we simply cannot allow the Democrats and the establishment Republicans to take us even further down the road of socialized medicine.

我们曾经拥有世界历史上最伟大的医保体系,如果我们能回归自由市场原则,我们就能再次做到这一点。选举非常重要,我们不能让民主党人以及在任的共和党人带领我们在社会化医疗的道路上继续走下去。

They have already turned our once great healthcare system into a giant disaster zone, and we need to show them the door before they can do even more damage.

他们把我们曾经伟大的医保体系搞成了一个巨大的灾难,我们需要在他们搞更多破坏之前把他们踢下位置。

【Zero Hedge评论】
man of Wool Dec 7, 2017 1:53 AM
So much for private health care in America.

美国的私人医保到此为止了。

alphasammae Dec 7, 2017 3:19 AM
..., and El Presidente Trump wants to build a wall and discourage Americans from savings across the border on medical care and vacationing as well.

……与此同时,美国总统特朗普希望修建一堵墙,阻止美国人省钱去边境另一边看病和度假。

misnomer00 Dec 7, 2017 3:28 AM
Im Indian. When daughter was in the nICU for 60 days after birth at the best private nICu hospital in my city, cost per day was 100-150$ depending on the medicines needed for that day. Total bill of less than 9k dollars for a 2 month stay.
Granted this might be a lot for most Indians, but the care is the best and in general, surgeries in India would be a great option for most Europeans and Americans.
The caesarean cost of delivery including medicines and 3 day stay at the best maternity hospital cost us 1100$. Ac rooms, attached bathroom, HD TV, wifi. More like a hotel suite really.

我是印度人。我女儿出生后在我所在城市最好的私立医院nICU(新生儿重症监护室)住了60天,每天的花费是100~150美元,取决于当天所需的药物。2个月的总花费用不到9000美元。
当然了,这对大多数印度人来说可能是一大笔钱了,但护理是最好的,一般来说对于大多数欧洲人和美国人来说,在印度手术是一个很好的选择。在最好的妇产科医院剖腹产外加药物和住院3天,花费是1100美元。空调房、带浴室、高清电视、wifi。更像是间酒店套房。

NickPeeMe Dec 7, 2017 3:29 AM
The Mexicans along with the rest of planet earth have socialized medicine, that is why it is cheaper ! It is the profit based capitalist model that suggest there is profit in health care that is fucked up.

墨西哥人以及地球上其它人都有社会化医疗,这就是为什么更便宜!出问题的是基于利润的、暗示医保有利可图的资本主义模式。

To Hell In A Ha...  NickPeeMe Dec 7, 2017 5:42 AM
Well tell the Americans the fucking secret answer? I was having so much fun watching them get fleeced and not knowing what the solution is. A lifetime of the USSA health system is best ever devised, will be difficult for the brainwashed to shake.

(回楼上)为什么要告诉美国人这个该死的秘密答案?我看到他们被骗还一筹莫展的样子开心死了。“USSA(美利坚社会主义合众国,是一种嘲讽的叫法)的终生健康体系是有史以来最好的方案”——这一信念对于被洗脑的人来说很难动摇。

NuYawkFrankie Dec 7, 2017 4:00 AM
Because EVERY THING in the USSA is a RIP-OFF or a SCAM.

因为USSA的所有东西都是敲诈或诈骗。

DeaconPews Dec 7, 2017 4:19 AM
Time to move near the border.

是时候搬到边境附近了。

To Hell In A Ha... Dec 7, 2017 5:35 AM
Why? It's because USSA doctors are the best trained in the world EVER! It's because the USSA has the best healthcare facilities anywhere in the world EVER! This is just part of the daily propaganda the Yanks have been spoon fed for decades. This type of mind-sweeping and brainwashing, will take a generation, or two to erase.
10x more than Mexico?  Why give the Yanks facts? The simple fact is the health insurance industry and big pharma scalp the profits for themselves. As I always say on this issue. I endorse ever larger health premiums for my USSA friends, until the fools learn. Commonsense does not matter, just ideology to these Yankee fools. The private sector is best. Repeat this ad-nauseam.....

为什么?因为USSA的医生接受的培训是世界上最好的!因为USSA有世界上最好的医疗设施!——这只是洋基佬几十年来日积月累接受的宣传的一部分。这种疯狂的洗脑结果,需要一到两代人时间才能抹去。
比墨西哥贵10倍?为什么告诉洋基佬事实呢?简单的事实是医疗保险行业和大型制药企业利益熏心。就像我在这个问题上经常说的。我赞同收取USSA的朋友们更贵的健康保险——直到这些傻子长记性。对这些洋基佬来说,常识并不重要,意识形态才重要。“私营的是最好的”。不断重复这一令人作呕的理念……


Faeriedust Dec 7, 2017 6:27 AM
The Mexican system was 100% socialised within living memory, as are most South American systems.  No 10 million annual executive salaries.  Doctors are trained on the public tab and serve without quarter-million dollar loans hanging over their heads, so their fees and salaries are reasonable.  Medical schools provide medical education rather than competing for recognition for their world-class research, into which 90% of all funding is channeled. And interns get to sleep.

在我记忆中,墨西哥的体系是100%社会化的,和大多数南美国家体系一样。没有1000万的年薪。医生接受公费培训,并在没有超过25万美元的学费贷款悬在他们头顶,所以他们的收费和薪水是合理的。医学院提供的是医学教育,而不是为世界级研究的名声而竞争——正是研究花了90%的资金。

Bay Area Guy Dec 7, 2017 9:14 AM
I was in the hospital in June, 2016 to get a cancerous lesion on my kidney removed.  Checked in at about 11:30AM.  The operation commenced at about 3PM.  I was in recovery at 7PM and in my regular room at 8PM with my niece screaming in my ear to wake up.  By the next morning I was eating and drinking, along with, after a little while, peeing and walking.  The surgeon came in around noon and told me to get the hell out.  By the time IV's and drains were pulled and I got my discharge instructions, it was about 1:30PM when I stepped out the door into my brother-in-law's car.  So, 25-1/2 hours.  I have great insurance that is subsidized by a former employer from whom I retired, so despite the total bill from the hospital, the surgeon, and the myriad of other doctors and technicians totalling nearly $50,000, I paid $200 as my copay.  If memory serves, the insurance company paid about $5,000.

2016年6月,我在医院接受肾脏癌变切除。上午11:30左右入住。大约在下午3点左右手术开始。晚上7点我就回普通病房康复了,晚上8点,我侄女的尖叫把我吵醒了。第二天早上我就能吃喝了,过了一会儿,还尿了尿和散了散步。中午时候,大夫来了,告诉我赶紧滚蛋。等到输液管和导尿管拔掉时,我接到了出院指令,那差不多是下午1点半。所以,25又半个小时。我有一份很好的保险,是我退休前的雇主给我买的,所以尽管医院的总账单——包括外科医生,还有无数其他医生和技术人员的费用将近5万美元,我自己只支付了200美元。

TGDavis Dec 7, 2017 11:41 AM
My 21 year old daughter had an apendectomy in June.  She was in the hospital for 27 hours.  $39,000.00.

我21岁的女儿在6月做了一个阑尾切除术。她在医院呆了27个小时。39000美元。

Dr_Snooz Dec 7, 2017 11:50 AM
How is it that our national discussion of healthcare never ever mentions our poisoned food supply? Our food continues to deteriorate to the point that much of what is sold as food contains no actual food. People grow lumpy and fat. They get sick sooner. Their kids get horrific diseases unknown in human history. Yet everyone sits around and complains about how expensive it is to get sick, without ever questioning why they're getting sick in the first place. Your healthcare costs are a judgement for your lack of wisdom and your depravity.

为什么我们国家关于医疗保健的讨论从未提及过我们的食品供给有毒?我们的食品已经恶化到了许多被当成食品出售的东西根本不含真正的食物(都是化学添加剂)。人们变胖了,不久他们就生病了。他们的孩子患上了不为人知的可怕疾病。然而,每个人都坐那儿抱怨自己生病的代价是多么昂贵,却从未质疑为何他们会患病。你的医疗费用是对你缺乏智慧和堕落的审判。

honestann Dec 7, 2017 2:59 PM
The author says "healthcare could implode"?  Seriously?  How about "has imploded".  Of course smart people can mostly ignore this fact... by not having health insurance and going on a vacation whenever they need or want some healthcare.  The rent-seeker predators who bribe congress most suck up most of the cash and hide it, while providers only stay alive by triple billing everyone (and settling for whatever they can get), while people who pay health insurance don't get healthcare coverage because they almost never reach the deductible limit (and are still double billed unless they are very attentive).
At least these are the [quite consistent] stories I get from people I know in the evil empire.  And I believe them, since it had strongly moved in that direction before I got the hell outta dodge ~5 years ago.
BTW, quality healthcare really is vastly cheaper most places where the predators-that-be in the USSA and their allies don't control everything.  Massively cheaper.  And rarely provided via health insurance (the main point of fraud and scam).

作者说“医保体系会崩溃”?不是在开玩笑吧?应该说“已经崩溃”了吧。当然,聪明的人可以忽略这个事实……他们不买医疗保险,只需要在他们需要或想要一些保健的时候度假就行了。而那些贿赂国会以寻租的掠食者吸纳了大部金钱并隐瞒了起来,而被压榨者花了三倍的钱却只能勉强活着(而且逆来顺受),同时那些支付医疗保险的人没有医疗保险,因为他们几乎从未能达到免责限额(而且除非他们倍加留心,否则仍会被双重收费).
至少这些是我从认识的邪恶帝国(指)公民那儿听说的故事(始终如此)。我相信他们,因为在我5年前逃离这个大坑的时候,我已经发现有朝那个趋势发展的强烈迹象了。
顺便一提,在那些没有被USSA的捕食者及其盟友控制一切的地方,高质量的医保实际上非常便宜——便宜得多!而且很少是以健康保险的方式提供的(保险是欺骗和诈骗的温床)。


Global Douche Dec 8, 2017 12:49 AM
Here's how I see it. Ask your health insurer if they handle claims outside America! Surprisingly, some are allowing "tourist medicine" to take place, but you must do your homework in advance and get informed. For emergency procedures, I severely doubt much savings will be realized if an air ambulance took someone across the border, but for most elective procedures where time is on the side of the patient, there's some decent savings to be realized.
Medical Malpractice costs are a huge hit to a doctor's pocketbook. Many hospitals have a hell of a time making ends meet due to all the regulations. The little hospital where I live is bleeding an estimated 350k monthly and had to close relationships with two other health outlets where I live.
ObamaCare, as well-intended as it was made to be, is an utter failure!

我是这么看的。你问问你的健康保险公司,看他们是否接受美国境外的索赔!令人惊讶的是,有些公司是允许“医疗旅行”的,但你必须提前做好功课、充分知情。至于急救程序,包一架急救飞机去境外就能省很多钱了?我严重怀疑。但对于大多数不太紧急的情况,“医疗旅行”确实可能剩下不少钱。

hedgeless_horseman  Schmuck Raker Dec 6, 2017 10:03 PM
According to Hathaway, the average cost for an appendectomy in the United States is $33,000…
This is complete horse shit.
This is the average Usual and Customary billed charges for CPT 44970, that nobody ever pays.
The total Medicare allowable for surgeon, facility, and anesthesia is closer to $3,300.

根据Hathaway的说法,阑尾切除术在美国的平均费用是33000美元……
纯粹放屁
这是按照CPT44970收取的通常平均费用(CPT44970可能是一个收费标准),实际上没有人付那么多。
医疗保险可获宽免的总费用是3300美元左右。

Killtruck  hedgeless_horseman Dec 6, 2017 10:03 PM
For the same reason doctors load up Type 2 diabetics with bad advice and insulin, instead of telling them to stop eating and start fasting.
Money.

出于同样的原因,医生会给II型糖尿病患者提供错误建议,以及胰岛素,而不是告诉他们节制饮食。
一切都是为了钱。


ACP  Gap Admirer Dec 6, 2017 10:17 PM
It's pretty obvious.
If you're an illegal alien you get a appendectomy in the US for free.
That's a hell of a lot cheaper than in mexico.

很明显。
如果你是一个非法移民的话,那么你可以在美国免费做阑尾切除术。
这TM可比在墨西哥还便宜得多呢。


Zer0head  ACP Dec 6, 2017 10:20 PM
diy appendectomy instructions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfBHK6L0afw

DIY阑尾切除术说明:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfBHK6L0afw
HowdyDoody  Zer0head Dec 7, 2017 4:39 AM
"diy appendectomy instructions"
The Russians always take it to the next level.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UedcgSgWT50

DIY阑尾切除术?
俄国人总是这么会玩!


CheapBastard  Zer0head Dec 6, 2017 10:30 PM
One problem with "socialized medicine" is that a small percentage of people are paying for the non-payers who abuse the system.
They call this "cost shifting;" this means the cost of the FSA is shifted to folks who either have insurance or are uninusred but have enough assets for the health care provider to go after you for cash payment.
My sister had a simply "trigger finger release" outpatient surgery in a doctor-owned surgi center.
The doctor's bill was $800 and the surgicenter's bill was $3,900 for the 10 minutes operation. The light anesthesia cost $600 which was the bill from the nurse anesthetist.
I told her lets go to Thailand or Taiwan next time for elective surgery if either of us need it and the bill will be 1/10th of that.

“社会化医保”的一个问题是,实际上,一小部分人支撑起了这个系统,而大量的没付钱的、享受免费福利者正滥用这个系统。
他们称之为“成本转移;“这意味着成本会转移到那些有保险的人身上,或者是没有保险但有足够资产现金支付医疗服务的人。
我妹妹在一家私人手术中心做了一个简单的“板机指松解术(治疗腱鞘炎的手术)“门诊手术。
医生的账单是800美元,手术中心的10分钟的手术账单是3900美元。浅麻醉的费用是600美元——这是一名护士麻醉师的账单。
我告诉她,如果需要的话,我们下次去泰国或台湾做手术,花费会是这个的十分之一。


Delving Eye  Ahmeexnal Dec 7, 2017 12:13 AM
"Why Is An Appendectomy In The US 10 Times More Expensive Than An Appendectomy In Mexico?"
We have running water.

“为何美国的阑尾切除术比墨西哥的贵10倍?”
因为我们有自来水。

LeftandRightareWrong  Delving Eye Dec 7, 2017 12:48 AM
and drinkable

而且可直接引用。
(该评论以及楼上是在讽刺美国自来水水质导致阑尾炎)


shitshitshit  LeftandRightareWrong Dec 8, 2017 5:05 AM
It costs more in the US because americans are fat bastards and we need heavy machinery to dig up their bloated intestines...

之所以美国更贵,是因为美国人都是肥猪,我们需要用重型机械来挖出他们肥大的肠子……

jeff montanye  CheapBastard Dec 6, 2017 11:08 PM
just a guess but maybe everyone in mexico's hospitals gets paid way less than in the u.s.   ya think?  
as far as "free market alternatives" and "lawyer scum", all advanced countries but the u.s. have single payer health care and they pay on average half of what the u.s. does for better results:
http://www.visualcapitalist.com/u-s-healthcare-system-global-outlier-not...

只是猜测一下,也许墨西哥医院每个人的收入都比美国少得多?
至于所谓的“自由市场方案”和“律师渣滓”,除了美国所有的发达国家的医保都是独一性的,而他们只花一半的加钱却能得到更好的服务。


Singelguy  jeff montanye Dec 7, 2017 7:53 AM
That is simply not true. I live in the Netherlands and there are at least 20 different health insurers to choose from, none of them owned or operated by the government. The government has legislated a basic coverage package that costs around $100 per month with a $400 deductible. Everyone is required to have at least basic coverage. There are various add ons that you can purchase for an extra monthly premium, depending on your circumstances. The big difference is that you do not have a vulcher lawyer system waiting to sue the hell out of doctors and hospitals. This keeps the costs reasonably low. I was in hospital here last year without insurance with a thrombosis in my leg. A three day hospital stay with an echogram, MRI and medication cost me $2400 and the hospital didn’t send the bill until 9 months later.

你说的不对。我住在荷兰,至少有20家健康保险公司可供选择,没有一家是政府拥有或经营的。政府制定了一项基本保险计划,每月花费100美元,免赔额是400美元。每个人至少必须购买基本覆盖。你可以根据个人情况购买各种额外月供。最大的区别是,在这里,没有等着把医生和医院告破产的律师系统。这使得成本保持在合理的低水平。去年我腿里有血栓,没保险的情况下住院。住院三天外加超声、核磁共振和药物治疗总共花了我2400美元,医院直到9个月后才把账单寄给我。

PT  Bigly Dec 7, 2017 2:58 AM
This could have been an informative article but it is not.
How much do doctors get paid in Mexico?
How much do doctors get paid in US?
Price of a hospital and land to put it on in Mexico?
Price of a hospital and land to put it on in US?
Quality of ...
Amount of money doctors have to spend on registration and insurance in Mexico, US ...
Equipment used in procedure ...
Amount of days in hospital ...
Facilities provided ...
Mortality rates ...
Complication rates ...
Interest payments ...
Size of admin ...
Instead we have one data point used for a generic diatribe against a theoretical construct and in favour of an idealized version of another theoretical construct which the author fails to acknowledge loses some important properties whenever it "succeeds" in interfacing with the real world.
Oh yeah, and the ideal Capitalist doctor model is to never heal your patients because then you lose your customers.  Moar profit in managing diseases than making them go away.  Competition will never let that go away because all the cheap doctors go bankrupt.  Think of what McDonalds did to hamburgers and now imagine that as your health care.  Then again, I never eat at McDs.  I prefer the no-brand mum-and-dad hamburger shops that might cost three times more but who gives a shit because you actually get a really really really good hamburger.  Nice way to live for us lucky ones.

这篇文章本来可以更加有启发性的,但信息太少了,比如说:
在墨西哥,医生能挣多少钱?美国呢?墨西哥医院的土地和建设成本是多少?美国又是多少?质量如何?墨西哥的医生要在登记以及保险上花多少钱?美国呢?使用的设备?住院天数?住院条件?死亡率?并发症发病率?利息?管理机构规模?等等等等……
相反,文章只有一个数据点,就开始对一个理论构想大加批判,并支持另一个理论构想。
哦,是的,理想的资本主义医生模式是永远不要治愈你的病人,因为治愈的话你就会失去你的顾客。苟活着比彻底治愈更有利可图。市场竞争永远不会让这种情况消失,因为所有收费便宜的医生都破产了。想想麦当劳对汉堡做了什么,再想想你的医保吧。再说一次,我从来不在麦当劳吃东西。我更喜欢没品牌的家庭汉堡店,也许会花三倍价钱,但谁TM在乎呢,因为你毕竟吃到了货真价实的、好吃的汉堡。

cheka  PT Dec 7, 2017 7:13 AM
in the US you have nyc standing between you and your doctor.  nothing changes until we remove third party parasites from the transactions.  hiring a doctor to do work for you is no different than hiring a plumber.  no need for third party parasite in the deal

除非我们把第三方寄生虫从交易中移除,否则一切都不会改变。雇佣一个医生和雇佣一个水管工没有什么区别。整个交易不需要第三方寄生虫

warpigs  Schmuck Raker Dec 6, 2017 11:11 PM
$1 = $18.86 Pesos.
$2.43/hr is the average in Mexico.
$22.23/hr for an American.
Bullshit aside, and if delivering medical care to Mexicans, then it will be cheaper in Mexico.
Let the down votes begin and let's now hear all of the mathematical voodoo bullshit to obfuscate facts and make this topic more annoying than it already is.

一美元=18.86比索(墨西哥货币)
墨西哥平均时薪是2.43美元,美国是22.23美元。
这不是屁话么?你也要比比收入水平啊。
我不怕你们灭我,现在我们听听那些数学邪教是如何混淆视听、让这个话题更加烦人的吧。

ghengis86 Dec 6, 2017 9:59 PM
Because they also take your other organs to sell?

为什么墨西哥更便宜?因为他们拿走你的器官出售?

youarelost Dec 6, 2017 10:02 PM
In Mexico you die

为什么更便宜?
因为在墨西哥你会死掉。

InnVestuhrr Dec 6, 2017 10:16 PM
Big part of the blame for the excessive costs goes to the lawyers - check out the breath-takingly high costs of liability and malpractice insurance in the USA, which the USA hospitals, clinics and doctors MUST pay, but do not exist in Mexico. You can send thanks for this situation to your elected legislators.
Just think how terrible and tough economic conditions would be in the USA if we did not have democracy, which allows us to control our own destiny, rather than be ruled and imposed upon by oligarchs ???

成本过高的主要原因在于律师——查查美国贵得令人窒息的责任险和医疗事故险!——美国医院、诊所和医生必须要购买这些保险,但在墨西哥却不存在。你可以就此情况向你当选的议员表示感谢。
想想吧,要是我们没有民主,无法控制我们自己的命运的话,会是多么的可怕,经济状况会多么艰难,因为没有民主,我们将被金融寡头们统治和欺骗。

August  InnVestuhrr Dec 6, 2017 11:07 PM
Indeed!  I knew a NYC neurosurgeon; his first $200,000 per year in income went to malpractice insurance... and this was decades ago.
FWIW I spent 37 years as a practicing MD, mostly in the USA;  the doctors are seldom the problem... look instead to the insurance companies, Big Pharma, lawyers, and government rule-makers.
Earlier today (possibly at ZH) I saw a stat that, since 1970, the number of US doctors went up 100%, while the number of healthcare "administrators" rose 30,000%

确实!我认识一个纽约的神经外科医生;他每年的前20万美元收入要花在医疗事故保险上……而且这都是几十年前的事了。
在美国,医生很少有问题……转头看看保险公司、大型制药公司、律师和政府法规制定者吧。今天早些时候我看到一个统计,自1970年以来,美国医生的数量上升了100%,而医保“行政人员”的数量上升了30000%。

junkyard dog Dec 6, 2017 10:17 PM
In this country you do not have to pay for medical services if you cannot afford the cost. Sign the paper work and if you live through the procedure, file bankruptcy. If you are refused service and then die, your family will be very well off.

在这个国家,如果你负担不起医疗费用,你就没必要掏钱。如果你活过治疗过程,那就签署文件工作申请破产。如果你被拒绝服务然后死了,你家人将会变得很富裕。

snblitz Dec 6, 2017 10:25 PM
You only have to "pay" these huge prices if you want too.
There is a whole farce that starts with the master charge list. It is just one big scam to keep people on the health "insurance" bandwagon.
The master charge list price for my hernia surgery was $16,000. I paid $1150.
Knowledgeable people paying cash (called self-pay) get 75 to 90% off the master charge list price. That could be you too.
Instead you pay astronomical amounts of money to "insurance" companies due to fear of their made up "prices".

而且,你要不要“支付”这高额费用要看你想不想了。这一出闹剧始于“万事达信用卡清单”。这是让人们持有健康保险的一大骗局。
万事达信用卡清单中疝气手术的价格是16000美元。而我只付了1150美元。
老司机会付现金(称为自费),可以比用信用卡便宜75 - 90%。
要么,你被他们编造的“价格”唬住了,选择送天文数字的钱给“保险”公司。


ItsAllBollocks Dec 6, 2017 11:12 PM
Easyest way to fix it is educate the masses on how the scam works. Rockefeller Foundation owns the universities and Rockefeller Foundation owns the drug companies. You think people are actually that sick they need a prescription every time they go near a doctor?

解决这个问题最简单的方法就是教育大众如何识破骗局。然而可惜的是,洛克菲勒基金会拥有这些大学,洛克菲勒基金会还拥有这些制药公司。

Jdhank Dec 6, 2017 10:48 PM
My own similar story.
I just got back a few weeks ago from a trip to Delhi, India where I had a two-hour thoracic (on my Ribs) surgery to remove some stabilizer hardware.
The Visa cost me about $200, the airfare about $1,100 and the surgery about $2k (rounded up) which included three days of hospital stay, all the meds, etc.  The medical care, IMO, was first-rate!
I knew the same surgery in the US would be many times that.  I've since been told by my medical friends here that it would've likely been (at least) 10-20 times what I paid.
Yeah, pretty sure that Delta can't exist forever.
Our pricing & billing structure in the USA WILL change, eventually.

我自己的类似经历。几周前我才从印度德里回来,我做了一个两小时的胸部手术(肋骨部位)以移除一些固定装置(他可能是肋骨骨折)。签证花了我大约200美元,机票约1100美元和手术2000美元(总共),包括三天住院和所有的药物等。在我看来,医疗水平是一流的!
我知道在美国同样的手术会花数倍假钱。我医疗行业的朋友告诉我,可能至少要花10 ~20倍。
是的,我很确定Delta不会永远存在的。我们的定价、账单机制最终会改变的。


wisehiney  Ms No Dec 6, 2017 11:30 PM
Anyone with open eyes
Knows that
You go to American hospitals
To get sicker and die
Deadbeat minority hires matter more in some places

任何睁开眼睛的人都清楚,
你去美国医院,
只会病得更重和死去。


snblitz Dec 6, 2017 10:40 PM
No, no, NO! You do not have to pay these crazy prices.
The average price paid for a dental visit (with x-rays) in my area is $261.
I paid $50.
You can pay $70 cash for an prescription or $9. Whichever you want.
It is the same across the board. The medicare reimbursement rates are not a good indicator of prices. You can often negotiate prices below medicare. I have done it. So have lots of others.

不不不!你不是必须支付这些疯狂的价格。
在我这儿,看牙(包括X射线)的平均价格是261美元。而我只花了50美元。
你可以选择为处方支付70美元或(不要处方)只付9美元(应该是想要报销必须有处方)。看你选哪个了。医疗保险报销比例并不是衡量价格的好指标。你经常可以在医保的基础上协商价格。我就这么做了。还有许多人也这么做。

Ms No  snblitz Dec 7, 2017 12:42 AM
I got a hospital bill dropped in half by just not paying it for a while.  lol  Is that what you mean?  Once they think that you are not going to pay often they will negotiate.  It wasn't tens of thousands either though.  STILL WAY TOO DAMN HIGH!

我因为欠账欠了一段时间,结果医院账单降了一半。笑尿,你是不是就是这个意思呀?一旦他们认为你不打算付钱,他们就会和你协商价格。但还是太TM贵了!

Berspankme Dec 6, 2017 10:42 PM
Because we are exceptional

因为我们美国的例外的。

Berspankme Dec 6, 2017 10:44 PM
I just had a bill that was 9900.00. I paid cash and they reduced it to 4200.00

我最近有个9900.00美元的账单。我选择付现金,他们就减到了4200块。

MEFOBILLS Dec 6, 2017 10:59 PM
First of all there is no such thing as a free market, there are three kinds of markets:  Elastic, Inelastic, and Mixed.
Price competiton rules apply in Elastic markets, delivering lowest prices.  For price competition you have to advertise prices.  Are prices advertised in the American system? Not really.  
Medical is a mixed market, meaning it has BOTH elastic and inelastic modes.  When you are unconscious, or dying, you don't give a damn about price.
The real problem is rent-seekers on both sides of divide are gaming the system.  Drug companies charge high prices and try for monopoly.  Liberals claim that medical is a "right" and that it should rob from peter to pay paul.  Illegal immigrants especially are to get free medical care, monies shited from the historical American people.
Medical is free market (elastic) most of the time, as you can make rational choices how to spend your money.  Insurance companies have inserted themselves in between you and your doctor, to then take rents.  Insurers are behaving as a third party where they don't belong.
A fix for medical has to acknowledge that the market is MIXED, not supposedly free.  A solution:  1) Public hospitals for the indigent, like they had in the old days.  Doctors can volunteer their time for a tax break.  Public hospitals will be low quality for people who refuse to insure themselves or who have no money.  Note:  Canada built their hospitals from 38-74 using debt free money, thus lowering the costs.   2) Prices listed on the internet, so people can shop for medical care.  This is similar to what Germany does.  3) Ambulance chasing lawyers get their heads slammed against the wall, with the law, as they cause high prices - a form of rent seeking 4)  You pay cash for your care.  Or, you pay cash and your insurance pays you back.  In either case, it is a TWO WAY relation with you and your doctor.  Insurance as a third party go-between is a non starter.  5) If you get really sick, say unconscious, then your insurance only then may act as a third party.  In this case, you have entered into inelastic mode, so inelastic rules apply.  Your insurer, or your agent makes sure your money is spent well in inelastic mode according to legal guidelines.  Even here there is conflict with the insurer, who will want to get over as much as possible to make a profit, so your legal agent would be invoked in inelastic modes.  If you want to pool your money with others for catastrophic insurance to prevent bankruptcy, then that also requires an agent of some sort to battle the insurance company.

首先,没有一个所谓的自由市场,有三种市场:弹性市场,硬性市场,以及两者混合。
价格竞争规则适用于弹性市场,提供最低价格。对于价格竞争来说,你必须突出价格这一点。在美国体系中,价格得到突出了吗?并非如此。
医疗是一个混合市场,意味着它既有弹性又有硬性的。当你失去意识或即将死亡时,你根本不会在乎价钱。
真正的问题是,两边的寻租者都在利用这个系统。制药公司收取高价,并试图垄断。自由主义者声称医疗是一种“权利”,因此应该抢劫A以支付B(指成本转移)。尤其是非法移民,他们能得到免费医疗,将成本转移到美国人民身上。
医疗在大多数情况下是自由市场的(弹性的),因为你可以做出理性的选择如何花你的钱。然而保险公司插在了你和你的医生之间以寻求利益。保险公司没呆在他们应该呆的位置。
解决医疗问题的一个办法是必须承认市场是混合的,而不是自由市场。一个解决方案:
1)为贫困者提供公立医院服务,就像过去一样。医生可以去公立医院做志愿者以换取税务减免。注:加拿大在1938年~1974年之间用无债务的资金建立了他们的医院,从而降低了成本。
2)将价格列在互联网上,人们可以购买医疗保险。这与德国的做法类似。
3)消灭律师。
4)你直接和医生交易,避开第三方保险公司。除非你真的生病了,或者“失去意识了”。这种情况才引入第三方保险公司,因为你已经进入了硬性模式,适用硬性规则。你的保险公司,或者你的代理人,确保你的钱在硬性模式下,按照法律规定去消费。即使这种情况下,你也可能会与保险公司发生冲突,因为他们想要尽可能多的利润,所以你可能需要法人代表之类的代理与保险公司打交道。


kevindow Dec 6, 2017 11:53 PM
As a physician, the problem is NOT the ACA specifically, but rather it is cost shifting from extremely low to no payments due to the uninsured/Medicaid/Medicare/Tricare/VA to those who pay more than their fair share for private insurance. In our ER, we have Medicaid patients who come in for common colds and even merely for work excuses, and call the ambulance only because they cannot find a ride. Of course, all of the fees are paid by the government, at a below market rate which only raises the rates for those with private insurance.
The obvious solution is to remove the government from health care, but there are far too many brainwashed citizens, illegals and their Dem political allies who benefit from government involvement in health care, of course at the tremendous expense of working taxpayers.

作为一名医生,我认为问题不在于ACA(平价医疗法案,即奥巴马医改内容),而是由于未参与保险/医疗补助计划/国家老年人医疗保险制度/军队医疗系统等等这些补助系统,导致成本被转移到了花钱买保险的人身上。在我们急诊室里,有些接受医疗补助的病人,只是因为普通感冒就来看病,甚至他们只是找请假借口,或者因为找不到车就叫救护车。当然了,所有费用都是由政府支付的,并且低于市价——这只会抬高个人保险价格。
最简单的解决办法是将政府从医疗保健中移除,但有太多被洗脑的公民、非法移民和他们的政治盟友,他们受益于政府参与的医保系统——这显然是纳税人的巨大损失。


roddy6667 Dec 7, 2017 12:25 AM
All these ignorant snide remarks about medical care in Mexico. What buffoons!
I had an uncle who bought a small villa in Mexico when he retired. He told me all the same stories about quality medical and dental care for very cheap prices. He could even afford a housekeeper. In America he would have been just another poor retiree clipping coupons and living a not so enjoyable life.
Crazy Uncle Harold was smarter than the rest of them.

这么多墨西哥医保的无知评论。一群蠢货!
我有个叔叔退休后在墨西哥买了一栋小别墅。他给我讲了在墨西哥以非常便宜的价格获取高质量医疗和牙科保健的故事——他甚至雇得起一个女管家。要在美国的话,他只不过是另一个穷苦退休老人,靠优惠券过着糟糕的生活。

everything1 Dec 7, 2017 12:33 AM
Large companies are moving to self insuring and sending employees out of country for surgical procedures, with better outcomes.  Iatrogenic disease is the third leading cause of death in the U.S., and highly under reported, quack insurance is expensive too, although they are lobbying to cap lawsuit payouts.
They killed a relative, sent them home after a colonoscopy with pain pills to bleed to death in their sleep, it's really to bad, no chance to say good bye and pointing the finger at the spouse for two months after until they would admit any wrongdoing.
They want money.

大公司正在采用自我保险措施,将员工送到外国进行外科手术,结果更好。医源性疾病是美国第三大致死原因——而且报道极少。“庸医保险”也贵的很,尽管医生们被游说,买“庸医保险”胜过诉讼赔偿。

Flybyknight Dec 7, 2017 12:42 AM
"A lot of people out there believe that the United States has a free market healthcare system, but that is actually not true.  The percentage of the population that receives government-subsidized healthcare is rapidly approaching 50 percent, and the healthcare industry may be the most heavily regulated sector of the entire U.S. economy."
The USA is cloud cuckoo land. The above quote implies this is a socialist system. Cuba or Canada or NZ have socialist systems that do not cost anywhere near $43000 for an appendectomy. Japan has a insurance system where the individual pays 30% and the government insurance company that all workers pay into pays 70%. An appendectomy costs the patient around $ 800. What the US has is a "corporations screw the government/ taxpayer and the patient" system.
Isn't capitalism great!

有很多人相信美国有一个“自由市场化”的医保体系,然而事实并非如此。接受政府补贴医保的人口比例正迅速接近50%,而医疗行业可能是整个美国经济中受监管最严的部门。
美国是脱离现实的幻境。上面这句话好像在暗示美国是社会主义制度。然而古巴、加拿大或新西兰的社会主义制度并不需要花43000美元做阑尾切除术。日本有一个保险制度,个人支付30%,政府的保险公司支付70%。阑尾切除术的费用约为800美元。
美国所拥有的是“企业压榨政府、纳税人和病人”的系统。
资本主义真棒!不是吗?


are we there yet Dec 7, 2017 1:33 AM
My brother died of liver cancer. There was only one drug to extend life for 3 months 'nexavar' and at the time they wanted $5000 a month for 30 pills except that you had to pre purchase pills for a year with cash until an expected death 3 months later. However the pharmacy refused to sell it unless a years supply was pre purchased ($60,000 to $80,000). Clearly a scam to increase profits. India sells the same drug for $ 7 dollars a day but it is illegal to import it back into the US. My brother chose to die a month earlier.
Lesson: watch out for your own health every way you can, hospitals have layers of mixed agenda and secrecy about everything.

我哥哥死于肝癌。只有一种药可以延长三个月生命——nexavar(多吉美,一种分子靶向治癌药),当时,家人想要每个月以5000美元价格买30片药,直到预计3个月后死亡。然而,药店拒绝出售,除非直接购买一年的(要花6万到8万美元)——显然是为了榨取金钱。印度出售同样的药,只需要7美元一天,但进口到美国是非法的。我哥哥选择提前一个月死去。
教训:尽可能照顾好你自己的健康吧,医院太黑了。

stacking12321  are we there yet Dec 7, 2017 3:39 AM
sad story.
if it were me, i would've bought the pills in india, and brought them back to the usa, to hell with the bureaucrats who try to claim it's illegal.

悲伤的故事。
如果是我,我会在印度买这些药,然后把它们带回美国,让那些试图称其为违法的官员见鬼去吧!




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